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Whole Foods founder and CEO John Mack­ey told the Amer­i­can Enter­prise Insti­tute in a livestreamed inter­view on Tues­day that social­ism is a failed sys­tem that “impov­er­ish­es every­thing” and char­ac­ter­ized it as “trick­le-up poverty.”

Mack­ey, who co-authored the book “Con­scious Cap­i­tal­ism,” said that “social­ism has been tried 42 times in the last 100 years, and 42 fail­ures. It doesn’t work, it’s the wrong way. We have to keep capitalism.”

While acknowl­edg­ing crit­i­cisms of cap­i­tal­ism as a mech­a­nism that some­times can be cap­tured by spe­cial inter­ests, be over­ly mate­ri­al­is­tic, and appear indif­fer­ent to the plight of those who don’t suc­ceed, he said the alter­na­tive of social­ism is far worse.